hey lorrmaster, I understand that the implementation is not trivial but I have extensive knowledge in that area. For reference, I scripted that:
Or with other words, the complexity is in the combination of runes and a proper visual feedback for the player. The spell application will use animation events or perks with "apply combat hit spell". As a last resort we can use attack data changes and use the same SKSE plugin/method we wrote for CACO.
For the sake of my own sanity and workload I will try to keep the system as simple as possible.
the "scenes" thread became a bit full of discussion about different things - which is great. This thread is a documentation place for now and shall serve as a reference on how things work. What is a glimpse?
A glimpse is a vision of the past, a flashback, a memory. The player can witness these by watching "now" what people did in the past. The people of the past are called apparitions.
Those people spawn at specific locations and they can not be interacted with. Trying to walk close to them results in them vanishing.
Next steps: - create a demo glimpse - gather feedback
Open questions: - How should the vanishing FX looks like - should the apparitions create footstep sounds? - should the apparitions create footprint decals? (if Footprints mod is active) - which permanent shader/FX should the apparitions have - are glimpses repeatable, if yes, how so? - which actions interrupt the glimpses (like player enters combat)
What the framework can do:
The framework (current setup) can start the glimpses, restart them and shut them down if necessary. It can allow repeatable glimpses and set a time limit (in hours) on when the glimpse can occur again. The whole framework only starts working after a certain quest stage of the main quest is reached.
Hm, quick idea I had: Reward the player for watching the scenes till the end (strenghtening the exploration aspect of the mod project):
Some "Glimpses" (can we agree on that term?) lead the player to (hidden) POI (point of interest) or treasures. - It could be as simple as a chest that is usually just out of the common path - or even something like a metal lockbox in a tree stump (anything that could survive many years?)
Ehm, if you don't mind I can integrate the glimpses if you wish. I will upload two files soon for demonstration.
Additional thought: I believe that (some) scenes are worth to watch multiple times.
Certain ways to do that:
- trigger it once every XX hours - trigger it when the player does a certain action, this would need some kind of mechanic that tells the player where and how he can reactivate the scenes (basically a POI (point of interest) with optional activation or interaction) - optional: this action could be connected to the previously mentioned rite/ceremony (simple idea: activate a "shrine" or w/e and remove 1 frost miriam (...) from your inventory)
The atmorans had some kind of initiation ceremony or rite, where an adult atmorian (or priest, or whoever) was formally welcomed into the society, community or into a certain position. After the ceremony you would form a connection with them, through blood or magic or anything else that fits atmoran lore.
In-game it could be the player who self-initiates himself/herself. Let's say we need ritual clothes, a ceremonial dagger and some incense alternative (frost miriam, anything) and a book (like a journal) that explains the process as all old atmoran priests (sorry guys if I already broke the lore) are dead.
The book would describe the process and some examples of the (potentially dangerous) rite and the player could then replicate the rite from the book in 2-3 easy steps. Like:
0. Read the book and see the ceremony room to get the idea 1. gather the necessary ingredients 2. do the rite and pass out 3. wake up and have your first ghostly flashback
Some notes: Dagger : I thought about using the draw blood idle that is only used once (afaik) in Skyrim, at Skyhaven Temple Clothing: just rags or tattered clothes maybe with a special symbol on the texture, player has to wear them, they could give a visual feedback like drawing the color from the world (IMOD to grayscale) ingredients: anything you could place into some bowls and burn
___ I think you get the idea. The actual rite could be anything else and likely something more fitting.
Aaah! That's how you want to do it, I see. Good,that gives everyone more options on how to trigger things. I agree with you that how it looks is more important how it works under the hood. I will work on that right now.
I thought of a framework to start and control the scenes today. I will try to get that working first. Goal for now is to control, start simple scenes like the one mentioned above: Lone wanderer, fisherman.
I am not chinese, only here for a year or something. Frustrating is the amount of "random" blocked things like: creationkit.com (blocked because you need a captcha if in China, captcha provider seems to be google, which is blocked) nexusmods.com (sometimes - because it seems to rely on google API ajax.google.com) ... much more pages
During the day internet can be slow, it seems like our whole building shares 1 big connection. That would be about 700 people. So speed ranges from 10 kB/s (and many interruptions) to 7MB/s.
____ Back to topic: I downloded the 0.9.7. latest version this night. Had a quick walk through it - really cool feeling. Many interesting details.
I will try to implement some scenes this weekend, looking forward to that.
Things I missed from before: I agree on NOT disabling player controls and reoccuring scenes.
Idles can be done via patrols and only patrols could do things like: Walk, 30 secs praying, walk, point into the clouds
I think that the quest handling, proper respawning, feel and avoidance of interaction is more complex to get right than good looking packages or scenes. Thus I would like to create a proof of concept with a simple package first and then expand on it.
What I need to create a test is the .esm or file to work in. Where can I download that? Please note that dropbox is blocked in China (cheers) and I need to access it via VPN, which makes it even slower. I'd like to work on this on the weekend - so I should start downloading soon xD.
I think this is the correct thread to talk about the ghost scenes and I would like to comment on the technical aspect of your ideas.
Basically the idea is to have ghost like actors doing stuff to give an idea about things looked in the past (did I get that right?). I picked some of the ideas of Hannes from above and comment on:
Herma Mora Shrine: mysterious monks covered in clothes praying silently
Exterior: random wanderers ghosts
Sea Exterior: Nordic Ghost ships
Complex but doable scene*: *until I have proven myself wrong
Sunken Ship / sea ext: setting sails, sailing up to crash point (quest)
_____ Concerns voiced within this thread:
The following concerns have been voiced here:
- NPCs will LOOK at your when you get too close - the NPCs might attack you or stop the scene when you get too close - the player will collide with ghost
The following solutions have been mentioned:
- object/NPC respond to any damage via an onHit-script - big triggerboxes (or other means) to disable the NPC if the player gets too close
A basic question affects the above things:
- Do we disable player control during the scenes? _____
If the above is the starting point of discussion, then here are my two cents:
From what I got with the brief talk with RHodeidra on Steam and reading the ideas of Hannes here, I envision the following thing:
The player explores the mysterious lands of snow and ice, wonders about how life must have been here and pops into a nice spot with a triggerbox. Ghostly actors spawn, who can be seen (pa)trolling around, praying at a shrine or simply walking from A to B. The player is surprised, briefly watches and then tries to interact with the Ghosts. Getting too close will make them go poof and vanish. After having seen 2 - 3 of those scenes, the player has learned that the only thing he can do is watch.
Here is the basic setup:
Create a quest with a specific package or scene inside, that makes the NPC do the desired actions. We don't necessarily need to use scenes if the NPC don't speak or interact with each other but all act on an individual basis which does not need synchronisation. Even simple patrols could work, as long as the spawning and despawning of the Ghost is controlled by a quest. The quest thus can merely be a framework to control start, end and possible repetition of the "scene" or to be precise "package that is executed while the NPC is in a quest" (short: quest package).
Here are working solutions to most mentioned issues:
NPC will look at the player:
Actor.SetHeadTracking(False) 1.) This function will disable the headtracking of an actor. NPC might attack you or stop the scene when you get too close:
1.) Clear all interrupt flags on quest package and/or scene package 2.) Thenset the following flags: Ignore combat, (must complete)* on the package 3.) on the Actor form: Set the following flags: IsGhost, Doesn't affect stealth meter, Respawn 4.) on the actor form: set the voicetype to NONE
On a side note: I recommend avoiding Event OnHit scripts as much as possible. In this situation it could be a solution but the issue is that the Actors are hit in the first place, which can be solved.
The player will collide with the ghost
True. Removing collision of actors is something I'm not sure if possible or even worth trying. Here is an alternative approach with the goal of a distance based vanishing of the ghost. If you get too close it simply vanishes.
1.) Create a constant effect MGEF and a Spell of type "Ability" 2.) Place a script on the MGEF that OnEffectStart kills the ghost 3.) Place a condition function on the spells effect list (our MGEF) 4.) Configure the condition function as following: S GetDistance Reference: 'PlayerRef' < 512.00
In words: The ghosts just do their thing, completely ignore the player and can't be hit by arrows or projectiles If the player walks closer to the affected Ghost actor than 512 units, the Ghost will die. Using the standard Ghost death animation (basically a poof explosion) without the ash pile attachment should look good enough. Note that the standard talk activation range, where the cursor displays Talk "ActorName" is roughly 200 units. Killing the actor will disallow repetition of the scene until the Ghost has respawned (if repeatable scenes are desired).
*I know how, but I am no artist, does not look beautiful
Quests: Scripting up to medium complexity, including Story Manager Events
Papyrus: Scripting up to medium complexity, including functions, states and solid QA
Most complex thing I did was the Throwable Bombs feature of CACO
My releases: Immersive Poisons - SkyRe Reproccer based plugin
My projects: PerMa - full creation of Alchemy.xml, potion and poison balance, unique potions CACO - developed Elemental Bombs feature, scripting, CK work Death Alternative - QA, testing Awake - FX, custom spells, creatures (unreleased) Resplendent Armor - custom spells, scripting (unreleased) WtB - my own New Lands mod (unreleased, not announced)
What I am interested in:
1. Creating WI (World Interactions), wilderness encounters, events 2. Quest scripting, scenes of single (self contained) quests (I dont feel like taking quest lines)
___ I already have a first assignment: Create ghostly actors that can be seen doing work/other activities in a kind of flashback, time lapse, vision.
I'd need someone to help me find the correct spots within the worldspace.